docs(LLM): the decode stall a prefill causes, and the knobs that turn it #27
@@ -1,9 +1,9 @@
|
||||
---
|
||||
type: reference
|
||||
title: LLM Performance Diagnosis
|
||||
description: Probing why a served LLM is slow — the flat-depth probe, the expert-offload duty-cycle arithmetic, kernel-time attribution via the profiler window, live telemetry without benchmarking, RAM-bandwidth ceilings, IBS tensor attribution and prefix-cache-aware routing.
|
||||
description: Probing why a served LLM is slow — the flat-depth probe, the expert-offload duty-cycle arithmetic, kernel-time attribution via the profiler window, live telemetry without benchmarking, RAM-bandwidth ceilings, IBS tensor attribution, prefix-cache-aware routing, and the step-shape census behind decode stalls under a prefill.
|
||||
tags: [performance, profiling, moe, pcie, prefix-cache, routing, telemetry]
|
||||
timestamp: 2026-10-05T00:00:00-07:00
|
||||
timestamp: 2026-10-19T00:00:00-07:00
|
||||
---
|
||||
|
||||
# LLM Performance Diagnosis
|
||||
@@ -213,9 +213,76 @@ function directly with synthetic bodies (stdlib-only policy module);
|
||||
conversation identity is the FIRST N KiB of prompt — a shorter tested prefix
|
||||
hashes differently per turn and pinning silently never happens.
|
||||
|
||||
## 9. Decode cadence under a prefill (the step-shape census)
|
||||
|
||||
"Decode turns to sludge the moment a long prompt arrives, then recovers" is not a
|
||||
link or a gather story — on a chunked-prefill engine the unit of interference is
|
||||
**the step**. A step that carries a prefill chunk takes the chunk's time, and every
|
||||
decode row sharing that step waits that long for its next token. Chunk size is
|
||||
`min(remaining, --checkpoint-interval, --max-num-batched-tokens)`, so on a hybrid
|
||||
model the interval caps it before the budget does.
|
||||
|
||||
Census it without touching the model — the engine's own counters (`/stats`,
|
||||
`/metrics`, cumulative since boot):
|
||||
|
||||
```
|
||||
decode-only step = step_ns_decode / steps_decode
|
||||
shared step = (step_ns - step_ns_decode) / (steps_prefill + steps_mixed)
|
||||
```
|
||||
|
||||
Then bucket a day of `decode_tokens_per_second` by `prefill_tokens_per_second`
|
||||
(Prometheus `query_range`, step 120 s) and **check the lag**: correlate decode with
|
||||
prefill at lag 0 and again at 2-14 minutes. Lag-0-only ⇒ step-time contention, the
|
||||
chunk is holding the device. A lagged tail ⇒ residency churn — the prefill's working
|
||||
set evicted something decode needs (expert slab, KV) and decode pays after the
|
||||
prefill is over. `preemptions` separates the third shape: a preempted-and-recomputed
|
||||
sequence stops producing entirely and then re-prefills from token 0, which is a
|
||||
stall, not sludge.
|
||||
|
||||
Knobs, in the order worth trying them (radiance GUIDE §4.5):
|
||||
|
||||
- `--prefill-interleave N` — after a chunk step taken beside decoders, the next N
|
||||
steps carry decode rows only and admit nothing. Decoders keep their cadence; the
|
||||
prompt pays that in TTFT. Counts as `engine_steps_held_total`.
|
||||
- `--busy-prefill-chunk MODE` — the chunk's share of a step that has other work:
|
||||
`auto` (default) reserves a row plus the draft window per decode row behind it and
|
||||
an eighth of the budget per waiting prefill/request, `off` lets the chunk take the
|
||||
whole step (admission never runs while it does), `N` pins the share. Never under
|
||||
the prefill stager's smallest pass — the startup line names it, and below it every
|
||||
routed layer reads its pooled experts synchronously, which costs the prefill far
|
||||
more than sharing saves. Counts as `engine_prefill_chunks_capped_total`.
|
||||
- `--max-num-batched-tokens` — the blunt rung, and the only one older pins have. The
|
||||
vendor's curve on a 48-layer MoE at 200k on two cards: chunk 512 → 1750 t/s, 1024
|
||||
→ 2200, 2048 → 2706 (a 185k prompt: 138 s against 91 s), so halving the stall
|
||||
costs ~19 % of prefill. Raising it past the interval buys nothing and loses expert
|
||||
residency to the arena.
|
||||
- `--prefill-span N` — the inverse trade: a *lone* prefill carries N intervals a step
|
||||
while every shared step is planned at a smaller shared budget, which on an
|
||||
expert-tiered box lends that arena back to the expert slab. Vendor TP2
|
||||
expert-tiered TTFT deltas vs a plain 2048 budget: −6.1 % at 2k, +2.3 % at 18k,
|
||||
+49.1 % at 250k — long prompts only.
|
||||
|
||||
Two traps. **The arena/slab coupling makes a shared step doubly expensive on an
|
||||
expert-tiered shape**: the full-plan arena takes VRAM the resident expert slab would
|
||||
have had (320 MiB/card at TP2 for a 4096 budget), so the decode rows inside that step
|
||||
also read experts over the link — a smaller shared budget helps twice. And **re-check
|
||||
`prefix_hit_rate` / `prefix_evictions` after any chunk change**: the arena and the KV
|
||||
pool are the same memory, and the failure looks like turn two taking as long as turn
|
||||
one.
|
||||
|
||||
Availability is a version question, not a config question: `--busy-prefill-chunk` and
|
||||
`--prefill-interleave` are absent from older pins — prove it on the running container
|
||||
(`podman exec <c> <binary> --help | grep -iE "prefill|chunk"`), never from the vendored
|
||||
tree, and check the source clone's depth before dating a flag from `git log -S`
|
||||
(a `--depth 1` clone reports its own tip for every search).
|
||||
|
||||
Run on: [[frank-archon]] (radiance 1.0.13, TP2 `expert_tiered`, budget 2048 = interval
|
||||
2048) — the measured census and the verdict for this fleet's shape are that page's.
|
||||
|
||||
## Related
|
||||
|
||||
- [[LLM Bench Windows and Measurement]] — the window discipline and usage-counter law
|
||||
- [[PCIe Link and Atomics]] — link probing and the streaming-vs-compute ceiling
|
||||
- [[RDNA4 MoE Expert Offload VRAM Budget]] — the plan behind duty-cycle terms
|
||||
- [[vLLM Porting and Compile Triage]] — the compile fix for the pointwise-glue bound
|
||||
- [[frank-archon]] — the endpoint where §9's step-shape census was run
|
||||
|
||||
@@ -234,6 +234,29 @@ Before 2026-09-26 the port belonged to the **`frank-medium`** service: [[frank-m
|
||||
- **MNBT 2048.** 2560 collapses decode to 2.6-7.7 t/s (MTP resonance); the w4 file tier streams
|
||||
in place only at MNBT ≤ 2048 and the activation arena scales with the chunk (32768 → 33.3
|
||||
GiB, refused).
|
||||
- **Decode pays for the chunk it shares a step with.** Census of the live engine
|
||||
(radiance 1.0.13, `/stats` + `/metrics`, cumulative over the 2026-10-15 boot):
|
||||
1,435,585 decode-only steps at **18.7 ms** each against 127,991 prefill+mixed steps
|
||||
at **317 ms** — 60 % of engine wall-clock spent inside 8 % of the steps, because the
|
||||
chunk is `min(remaining, checkpoint interval 2048, MNBT 2048)` = 2048 rows and every
|
||||
decode row in that step waits the whole chunk. Day of Prometheus (120 s step, 721
|
||||
samples): `decode_tokens_per_second` median **13.3 t/s** in the 56 % of samples where
|
||||
`prefill_tokens_per_second` ≥ 1000, against 106-240 t/s in the light-prefill buckets;
|
||||
bucketed by mean step time it is 128.7 t/s at 0.02-0.05 s steps and 12.0 t/s at
|
||||
0.15-0.4 s. The stall is **during**, not after — decode in windows 2-14 min after a
|
||||
busy-prefill window sits at the idle baseline (58-64 vs 77-85 t/s, the residual
|
||||
confounded by co-scheduling), so no lingering expert-residency penalty at 2-minute
|
||||
resolution, and `preemptions: 0` rules out preempt-and-re-prefill. Method:
|
||||
[[LLM Performance Diagnosis]] §9.
|
||||
- **The knobs for it are not in this pin.** `--busy-prefill-chunk` and
|
||||
`--prefill-interleave` (radiance GUIDE §4.5 — a shared chunk's cap, and N decode-only
|
||||
steps after each chunk) are absent from 1.0.13: proven on the running container
|
||||
(`podman exec frank-archon radiance --help` prints no `prefill`/`chunk` flag), and the
|
||||
2026-10-18 source tree carries both. The only crank this pin has is MNBT, and that is
|
||||
an arm and not an edit: the vendor prices a 1024 chunk at −19 % prefill to halve the
|
||||
stall, and this page's own MNBT law already knows 2560 collapses decode (MTP
|
||||
resonance). An image bump is gated by the 1.2.0 numerics dead end below, so any try
|
||||
re-scores draft acceptance before it is trusted.
|
||||
- **Slots cost KV and rows, never speed.** `--max-num-seqs` carries no radiance constraint: it
|
||||
adds 110 MiB of recurrent state per slot and declares the fused TP all-reduce over `seqs ×
|
||||
(1 + spec)` rows, and `wht6` is bit-exact up to 25 rows (single-sequence decode and any step
|
||||
|
||||
Reference in New Issue
Block a user