docs(vault): answer "what are we doing wrong" on decode-vs-prefill
frank-archon Laws: add the measured interference census (decode-only step 15.5 ms vs 166 ms chunk steps; 4.7% of steps hold 34% of step time; median decode 166 -> 13 t/s above 5k prefill tok/s, per-stream 6.7 t/s = one token per shared step; TTFT p90 2.4 -> 18.0 s for arriving requests), the lag test that kills the residency theory, the busy_cap arithmetic, and the correction that --prefill-interleave is the decoder dial and auto is not. Facts that change how an operator reads this box: /diagnostics exists and reports link-below-max at 100% busy; latency metrics live under vllm:, cadence under radiance:; preemption is vllm:num_preemptions_total (264 this boot, all bursts) while the radiance gauge is instant depth; both root ports are x8 Gen5 max by board (31.5 GB/s ceiling, not 64); DDR is back at 4800 MT/s while the 4600 corruption fix is recorded -- verify before blaming garbage tokens. §9 (LLM Performance Diagnosis): method corrected to the phase-ratio counters, dead 1.0.13 numbers destroyed, four PromQL traps added (metric prefix, 1 s EMA gauges vs 15 s scrape, counter resets across builds, 2-minute mean diluting the chunk), instruments that cannot be reached from Prometheus, and the knob list priced from the pinned 1.8.1 source instead of the stale guide.
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@@ -239,45 +239,90 @@ prefill is over. `preemptions` separates the third shape: a preempted-and-recomp
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sequence stops producing entirely and then re-prefills from token 0, which is a
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stall, not sludge.
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Knobs, in the order worth trying them (radiance GUIDE §4.5):
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**Split the step ledger before choosing a knob.** Three counters decide which mechanism you are
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looking at, and none is a rate: `engine_step_seconds_decode_total / engine_steps_decode_total` is
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the mean **decode-only** step, and `(step_seconds_total − step_seconds_decode_total) /
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(steps_total − steps_decode_total)` is the mean **chunk step** (a chunk alone, or a chunk with
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decode rows beside it). On frank-archon's live 1.8.1 shape that pair is **15.5 ms against 166 ms**,
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with 4.7 % of the steps holding 34 % of the step time. Decode-only steps themselves move only
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14.1 → 16.4 ms between a prefill-free minute and a heavy one, and the lagged buckets stay flat: so
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a decode-rate collapse on that box is **step time sharing**, and the eviction/residency story is
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worth ~10 % of one step — not a lever.
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- `--prefill-interleave N` — after a chunk step taken beside decoders, the next N
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steps carry decode rows only and admit nothing. Decoders keep their cadence; the
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prompt pays that in TTFT. Counts as `engine_steps_held_total`.
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- `--busy-prefill-chunk MODE` — the chunk's share of a step that has other work:
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`auto` (default) reserves a row plus the draft window per decode row behind it and
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an eighth of the budget per waiting prefill/request, `off` lets the chunk take the
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whole step (admission never runs while it does), `N` pins the share. Never under
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the prefill stager's smallest pass — the startup line names it, and below it every
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routed layer reads its pooled experts synchronously, which costs the prefill far
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more than sharing saves. Counts as `engine_prefill_chunks_capped_total`.
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- `--max-num-batched-tokens` — the blunt rung, and the only one older pins have. The vendor's own
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curve prices **halving the shared chunk at roughly a fifth of prefill throughput** (a 48-layer MoE
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at 200k on two cards — knob pricing, not this endpoint's number, so treat it as the order of
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magnitude a chunk decision costs). Raising it past the checkpoint interval buys nothing and loses
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expert residency to the arena.
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- `--prefill-span N` — the inverse trade: a *lone* prefill carries N intervals a step while every
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shared step is planned at a smaller shared budget, which on an expert-tiered box lends that arena
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back to the expert slab. The vendor's own measurement says the win is **long-prompt-only**: nothing
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at short prompts, a large TTFT gain at the far end of the window.
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**Four traps in the PromQL above.** Learn them before trusting a bucket:
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- **Latency is `vllm:`, cadence is `radiance:`.** The TTFT / inter-token / per-output-token / e2e
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histograms and the running/waiting gauges exist only under the vLLM compatibility prefix; preemption
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is `vllm:num_preemptions_total` (the counter) while `radiance:num_requests_preempted` is the
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*instant* depth. A `radiance:`-only query finds no latency and no preemption, and reads as "the
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endpoint never stalls anyone".
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- **The tps gauges are 1 s decayed windows, batch-pooled.** Per-stream rate is
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`decode_tokens_per_second / vllm:num_requests_running`. With a 15 s scrape, a 120 s step samples one
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scrape in eight — use step ≤ 30 s for a bucket table.
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- **Every counter resets at a restart and the metric set changes with the build.** Prove the window is
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one shape (`up`, or the first sample of a counter that only the current build exports) before
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ranking buckets; frank-archon's 48 h window straddled two containers, and one bucket's "collapse"
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turned out to belong entirely to the older one.
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- **A 2-minute mean step time dilutes the chunk.** The sharp variable is the phase ratio in the query
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above, never `step_seconds/steps` — 4.7 % of steps cannot move a mean that is 95 % decode.
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Two traps. **The arena/slab coupling makes a shared step doubly expensive on an
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expert-tiered shape**: the full-plan arena takes VRAM the resident expert slab would have had, so the
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decode rows inside that step also read experts over the link — a smaller shared budget helps twice.
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And **re-check
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`prefix_hit_rate` / `prefix_evictions` after any chunk change**: the arena and the KV
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pool are the same memory, and the failure looks like turn two taking as long as turn
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one.
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Three instruments the PromQL above cannot reach:
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Availability is a version question, not a config question: `--busy-prefill-chunk` and
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`--prefill-interleave` are absent from older pins — prove it on the running container
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(`podman exec <c> <binary> --help | grep -iE "prefill|chunk"`), never from the vendored
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tree, and check the source clone's depth before dating a flag from `git log -S`
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(a `--depth 1` clone reports its own tip for every search).
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- **The engine's own step-detail histograms (`prefill_steps_duration`, `prefill_step_tokens`,
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`token_queue_wait`) are exported but reach no target**, and the arena / expert slab / heat engine /
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prefill stager have **no metric at all**. Per-request forensics mean `curl localhost:7770/stats` on
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the endpoint's own host — same phase counters plus `preemptions` (the count), the chunk geometry,
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and the expert/link byte totals. `/diagnostics` answers "is the *box* the limit" in one call:
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configuration drift, the VRAM split, each card's link chain and clocks, findings with fixes.
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- **`prefix_hit_cut_tokens_total` measures prefill load you created for yourself.** On a hybrid
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(linear + paged) model a prefix hit reuses only as far as the last **linear-state** checkpoint, so
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cached tokens are replayed as prefill and stall decoders for it; frank-archon ran 38 % of all its
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prefill tokens that way, every `prefix_hit_cuts_total` labelled `reason="no_snapshot"`. A high
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prefill rate is not always a client that sends new tokens.
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- **Bucket the arriving request too** — `histogram_quantile` over
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`vllm:time_to_first_token_seconds_bucket` by the same prefill series. The decode gauge only sees
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sequences that are already running; the one waiting for its first token pays the same steps and
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shows in no decode number.
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Run on: [[frank-archon]] — the census was taken on its 3-slot radiance 1.0.13 era (budget 2048 =
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interval 2048); the live 1.8.1 shape carries the two chunk knobs. The measured census and the verdict
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for this fleet's shape are that page's.
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Knobs, in the order worth trying them (radiance GUIDE §4.5; the pinned source is the referee):
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- `--prefill-interleave N` — after a chunk step taken beside decoders, the next N steps carry decode
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rows only and admit nothing. **The knob that acts on the measured mechanism.** Decoders keep their
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cadence; the prefilling prompt pays in TTFT and an arriving request waits out the held steps.
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Counts as `engine_steps_held_total` — if that counter is zero, nothing is protecting anyone.
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- `--busy-prefill-chunk N` — pins a shared chunk's share of the step. **`auto` is a prefill-speed
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setting, not decoder protection:** it reserves `1 + spec` rows per decoding sequence plus an eighth
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of the budget per *waiting* request or prefill, and the source refuses to halve for "decode rows
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alone", so a shape can run `auto` and still lose every chunk step. Prove engagement from
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`engine_prefill_chunks_capped_total` against the chunk-step count. The floor is the prefill
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stager's smallest pass — the largest arena level that lends, plus one, named on the startup line
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`prefill staging: … a step of more than N tokens copies the pooled experts of …` — and under it
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every routed layer reads its pooled experts synchronously: the vendor prices the whole job (four
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decoders plus a long prompt) at **29.5 s with a 2048 chunk and 31.9 s at 512**, so shrinking the
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chunk blindly buys latency in both directions.
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- `--prefill-span N` — needs `--max-num-batched-tokens` of N intervals. A *lone* prefill then
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carries N intervals a step (on an expert-tiered box only from 8 intervals, where the vendor's own
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measurement says a span starts to win), while **every other step is planned at the shared
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budget** — a lending arena level that also keeps the stager's ring, the one combination the chunk
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knob cannot express. Priced by the vendor at 320 MiB a card of expert residency, ~3 % off the KV
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pool, and TTFT-neutral on one of his two 2×R9700 boxes: measure your own prompt lengths first.
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- `--max-num-batched-tokens` alone — the blunt rung, and the only one older pins have. It raises the
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arena the expert slab loses, and on this payload its resonance is violent (MNBT 2560 collapses
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decode — [[frank-archon]]).
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Two traps. **The arena/slab coupling makes a shared step expensive twice:** the full-plan arena is
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reclaimed from the expert slab *synchronously before the step*, and the loan regrows only after a
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quiet interval, so every step of a prefill run — the decode-only ones included — runs on the smaller
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slab. And **re-check `prefix_hit_rate` / `prefix_evictions` after any chunk or span change**: the
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arena, the staging ring and the KV pool are the same memory, and the failure looks like turn two
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taking exactly as long as turn one.
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Availability is a version question, not a config question: `--busy-prefill-chunk`,
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`--prefill-interleave` and `--prefill-span` are absent from older pins — prove it on the running
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container (`podman exec <c> <binary> --help | grep -iE "prefill|chunk"`) or from `/diagnostics`'s
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`configuration` block, never from a vendored tree, and check a source clone's depth before dating a
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flag from `git log -S` (a `--depth 1` clone reports its own tip for every search).
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Run on: [[frank-archon]] — owner of the live census, the measured step pair, and the arms.
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## Related
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